I know a lot of adoptees and natural mothers who would trade places with me in a heart beat. People who want their relationship with their reunited mother/father or child to be like mine. Of course, my relationship just didn't happen over night or over a few months. It took 18 years to get where we are. I don't wish on anyone that their relationship would take that long.
We have been doing great with our relationship for a year now. Like I have recently said, it seems when my mother finally decided that she has 3 children instead of 2, 2 daughters instead of 1, our relationship has grown tremendously. I know deep down that she already knew this, but it seems when she finally allowed herself to believe it, show it, and say it out loud, she finally opened up and treats me like her own child.
For me there are still problems in our relationship. I don't think that all my problems with being adopted will ever go away, but I believe one day it will be very, very minimal.
Since we met, I have had to always conform to her family life style. Why is that? When talking with other adoptees, it seems we are the ones that have to conform to our natural mother's/father's family life style.
Is it because I finally found her and now I am suppose to be a part of her family? Why can't she be a part of my family?
She gets upset at me if I do something that she doesn't like and thinks it is wrong for me to do. But she never thinks that I do it because this is the way I was raised. This is the way I have always done it.
One weekend I went to visit her. My boys did not go with me because they had planned a trip with their father. I wanted to go visit my nmother and have some adult conversation for the weekend. (When you are a single mother with 2 boys, there is no adult conversation around the dinner table or anywhere.) My mother decided that her favorite granddaughter needed to come to her house for the weekend because the granddaughter is a single child and my nmother didn't want her at her house alone even though her mother, my sister, was at the house all day. I ended up saying until lunch on Saturday and then came home.
When I was brought up, when someone came to visit, it was special. No matter if they came the month before. It was still special. My brother and I could not go out with our friends on the weekend. We had to stay home and visit. So I was brought up that company is to be welcomed and your home and you are to spend time with them.
My nmother doesn't see it like this. She apparently was brought up that people didn't come visit. Her other two were raised that company came to visit a little and they were not expected to stay. If company came to visit, company would have to conform to their weekend plans.
So why is it that I have to always conform to her life style. I had to change my behavior and my life style so that we could have a relationship. She didn't do any changing. It seems if I am to be accepted, I have to blend into her family.
Relationships are suppose to be a 2-way street. I have yet to see that in any reunited relationship.
Monday, February 2, 2009
Friday, January 23, 2009
The Way I Talk to My Mothers
I had just got off the phone with my amother, when my cube-mate at work turned around and said, "I always know which mother you are speaking with when you are on the phone." I just laughed about it.
But then later I started thinking. Do I really talk differently to them?
After thinking about it more, I finally admitted to it. I do talk to them differently. Since my nmother and I started seeing each other again, my relationship with my amother has changed. I didn't really mean for it to change. It just did. I think it started changing when my amother started to question every little thing I did in my life. "Why are you going to go back to that city again? When are you going to stay home? When are you going to spend more time with your kids?" It just seemed I couldn't do anything right for a year after my reunion started back up. It seems that way now.
When I talk with my amother, I allow the little things that she says or does bother me. But before I got back into reunion, she didn't say or act the way she does now.
With my nmother, I talked to her more like she is a good friend. Even though she says stuff that bothers me, I let it go. She usually gets a look from me, but I get over it most of the time quickly. She doesn't question everything I do in life. But she doesn't act like she is my mother either. When I do talk with her on the phone, my friends think that it is a friend until I tell them that it is my nmother.
But then later I started thinking. Do I really talk differently to them?
After thinking about it more, I finally admitted to it. I do talk to them differently. Since my nmother and I started seeing each other again, my relationship with my amother has changed. I didn't really mean for it to change. It just did. I think it started changing when my amother started to question every little thing I did in my life. "Why are you going to go back to that city again? When are you going to stay home? When are you going to spend more time with your kids?" It just seemed I couldn't do anything right for a year after my reunion started back up. It seems that way now.
When I talk with my amother, I allow the little things that she says or does bother me. But before I got back into reunion, she didn't say or act the way she does now.
With my nmother, I talked to her more like she is a good friend. Even though she says stuff that bothers me, I let it go. She usually gets a look from me, but I get over it most of the time quickly. She doesn't question everything I do in life. But she doesn't act like she is my mother either. When I do talk with her on the phone, my friends think that it is a friend until I tell them that it is my nmother.
I think I still walk on eggshells when it comes to my nmother. I don't try to rock the boat, because our relationship might not always be there. Seriously! I even write posts that say I know she will always be there and will not walk out on this relationship. I still believe that.
***Yes, I know I have contradicted myself.***
I know that my nmother wants a relationship with me. In fact, I know she wants this more than she ever has because of the last few weeks.
But, she allows other people to make her decision for her about being in my life. My sister and I are finally talking and getting along, but my sister could possible just lose it one day and tell her mother, "it is me or her. Choose." And of course, my nmother would choose the daughter she raised. No, it wouldn't be fair to me, but that is the way my sister runs things. My nmother won't stand up for herself. And of course, all natural mothers would say this started when my nmother got pregnant with me and had no support in raising me.
So I live with this. I have 2 mothers that I speak to differently. One I treat as my mother and one I treat as a good friend (almost my mother).
Friday, January 16, 2009
MY PLACE
Ever since my sister came to visit me last weekend, my nmother has changed her behavior towards me drastically. Before last weekend, she didn't talk to me as cheerful as she has in the last few days.
It seems to me that my sister has all the control over our relationship. As long as she accepts me in the family, then our mother is able to express her feelings toward me. But what happens when one day my sister decides she doesn't want me in the family? The answer? I get dumped.
I have also been thinking about my relationship with my nmother more this week than ever. When we first met, when I was 21, I had no clue where MY PLACE was in my nmother's life. Well, actually I did. My place was the person she gave birth to and that was not my family. I had grown up all these years knowing my place.
Then when I was 26, I had a lot of vacation time, so I went to my nmother's house to visit. A few days later, I thought that maybe I had a different place in her life. So MY PLACE had changed to "I might just have another family". A few weeks later, MY PLACE changed back. We couldn't make our relationship work and we both gave up.
Years have gone by with me knowing exactly what my place was. I was always going to be my nmother's daughter that she gave up for adoption. The girl who has a different family and really doesn't fit into her natural family. The girl who comes around not very often. THAT WAS MY PLACE!
Now, I have no clue where MY PLACE is. It is not the girl who doesn't come around, who doesn't fit, whose mother gave her away. I really don't know where my place is and this really bothers me. I feel like I am in limbo. I don't think anyone can tell me where MY PLACE is except for my nmother and I don't feel comfortable right now in talking with her about it because things are going good. A little too good if you ask me.
It almost makes me want to pull back and take another look. Or just sit on the fence post for awhile. It seemed when I started to pray to God to bless my relationship with my nmother more than I could ever imagined, he got right on it.
My relationship with her has been so blessed and more than I could ever imagine, that I am overwhelmed. Until I know what my NEW PLACE is, I am not sure what to do. I only know what my old place was. That is what I am familiar with. That is what I grew up with. That is what I know!
It seems to me that my sister has all the control over our relationship. As long as she accepts me in the family, then our mother is able to express her feelings toward me. But what happens when one day my sister decides she doesn't want me in the family? The answer? I get dumped.
I have also been thinking about my relationship with my nmother more this week than ever. When we first met, when I was 21, I had no clue where MY PLACE was in my nmother's life. Well, actually I did. My place was the person she gave birth to and that was not my family. I had grown up all these years knowing my place.
Then when I was 26, I had a lot of vacation time, so I went to my nmother's house to visit. A few days later, I thought that maybe I had a different place in her life. So MY PLACE had changed to "I might just have another family". A few weeks later, MY PLACE changed back. We couldn't make our relationship work and we both gave up.
Years have gone by with me knowing exactly what my place was. I was always going to be my nmother's daughter that she gave up for adoption. The girl who has a different family and really doesn't fit into her natural family. The girl who comes around not very often. THAT WAS MY PLACE!
Now, I have no clue where MY PLACE is. It is not the girl who doesn't come around, who doesn't fit, whose mother gave her away. I really don't know where my place is and this really bothers me. I feel like I am in limbo. I don't think anyone can tell me where MY PLACE is except for my nmother and I don't feel comfortable right now in talking with her about it because things are going good. A little too good if you ask me.
It almost makes me want to pull back and take another look. Or just sit on the fence post for awhile. It seemed when I started to pray to God to bless my relationship with my nmother more than I could ever imagined, he got right on it.
My relationship with her has been so blessed and more than I could ever imagine, that I am overwhelmed. Until I know what my NEW PLACE is, I am not sure what to do. I only know what my old place was. That is what I am familiar with. That is what I grew up with. That is what I know!
Monday, January 12, 2009
Weekend Visit
For many years I thought that I wanted a mother/daughter relationship with my nmother. When we first met, I did not want this kind of relationship because it never occurred to me to have a relationship with her or that I even could have a relationship with her.
My only concern in life was to have a career. Life was ahead of me and my career was about to start. I was finally going to be free to do whatever I wanted to do. I didn’t have time to think about adoption and its toll on my life.
When I was in my mid-twenties, it finally struck me that I had a bond with her. A bond that was deep down and crying to get out. I yearned for that mother/daughter relationship. With no help, I tried to achieve that relationship, but it didn’t happen. I can finally say that both of us didn’t realize what each other felt nor did we communicate very well about it. We thought we were at the same understanding, but in fact, we were not. We were on a different plane, coming from different angles, because of the different adoption experiences that we had.
This past weekend almost nullifies my past experiences with adoption. My nmother, half-sister, and her husband came to spend the night at my house this weekend. I never thought that my half-sister, the one that hated me for so long, would ever set foot in my house.
They drove 2 hours to visit this past Saturday night. When they arrived, we met at Cracker Barrel for dinner. At one point in time, while sitting down and waiting on our food, my brother-n-law was talking on his cell phone. Apparently, the other person asked him where he was. He said, “Sitting in Cracker Barrel with my wife’s sister.” You could hear a pin drop in the gift shop area. I don’t think I could talk for at least 5 minutes after this. I don’t think my sister could speak for longer than that. He actually said "sister" out loud. He actually accepts that we are sisters, but she is still not quite there yet.
Even though it wasn’t an exhaustive weekend or visit, I am very emotionally drained. I never dreamed that my sister would spend the night at my house. We talked, laughed and carried on like we were sisters. I think this has changed my relationship with my nmother also. She sees that mine and my sister's attitude about each other is changing. Even her behavior with me is changing.
My only concern in life was to have a career. Life was ahead of me and my career was about to start. I was finally going to be free to do whatever I wanted to do. I didn’t have time to think about adoption and its toll on my life.
When I was in my mid-twenties, it finally struck me that I had a bond with her. A bond that was deep down and crying to get out. I yearned for that mother/daughter relationship. With no help, I tried to achieve that relationship, but it didn’t happen. I can finally say that both of us didn’t realize what each other felt nor did we communicate very well about it. We thought we were at the same understanding, but in fact, we were not. We were on a different plane, coming from different angles, because of the different adoption experiences that we had.
This past weekend almost nullifies my past experiences with adoption. My nmother, half-sister, and her husband came to spend the night at my house this weekend. I never thought that my half-sister, the one that hated me for so long, would ever set foot in my house.
They drove 2 hours to visit this past Saturday night. When they arrived, we met at Cracker Barrel for dinner. At one point in time, while sitting down and waiting on our food, my brother-n-law was talking on his cell phone. Apparently, the other person asked him where he was. He said, “Sitting in Cracker Barrel with my wife’s sister.” You could hear a pin drop in the gift shop area. I don’t think I could talk for at least 5 minutes after this. I don’t think my sister could speak for longer than that. He actually said "sister" out loud. He actually accepts that we are sisters, but she is still not quite there yet.
Even though it wasn’t an exhaustive weekend or visit, I am very emotionally drained. I never dreamed that my sister would spend the night at my house. We talked, laughed and carried on like we were sisters. I think this has changed my relationship with my nmother also. She sees that mine and my sister's attitude about each other is changing. Even her behavior with me is changing.
Wednesday, December 17, 2008
My Relationship Has Changed
A few months ago, I finally sat down and wrote my nmother a letter. This letter had all the questions that I wanted/needed to be answered. Thinking that if she would answer all of my questions, I could have some closure to some of my adoption issues. There were even paragraphs in the letter of some things I wanted her to know about me or things I went through as a child and adult. The letter ended up being 9 pages long.
After I wrote the letter, I felt relieved just to be able to write down what was in my head. A week after I wrote it, I had decided to not read the letter to her or send it to her.
A few weeks later, I sat down with my cousin and had a conversation with her. (For more details see: Room With Many Doors)
During that conversation, I decided that I was not going to ask my nmother anymore questions about the past until September 26, 2013. This is no particular date. I just picked a date that was 5 years from now. These questions were hindering my relationship with my nmother. Five years from now, if those questions are still important, then I will ask them then.
So that has been a few months ago. Wow! What a difference in my relationship it has made.
We have gotten so much closer. In fact, she is answering some of my questions without me even asking. She has started opening up and talking about what happened. She even is asking me questions about things that I never thought she would ask. I am not feeling the tension that was among us since I am not seeking a moment of her time to ask a question or trying to figure out how to ask a question without her getting upset about it.
I am finally settling down in our relationship which is great. I don't wonder anymore if tomorrow is the last day I will ever talk with her or if we will ever see each other again. I don't wonder if our relationship is still there when we haven't talked in a week. I know deep down that our relationship will be a mother/daughter relationship forever.
For those adoptees out there, young or older, if you have a relationship with your nmother and want to ask what happened in the past or talk about what happened with your nmother when you were born, may I suggest to you to write it down. Write exactly what you would say to her. Write all the questions you have ever had. But keep it tucked away. If you have a new question later, go back to your letter and write it down. BUT, do not send it or tell your nmother about it. Make a commitment to keep it tucked away for 5 years or whatever is a good number for you.
Also, don't ask your nmother or try to talk to her about the past. Just live in the moment.
Then in a couple of weeks or months, see how much your relationship with your nmother has changed. See how closer you can become with your nmother by doing this.
Sidenote: For those of you who keep up with my blog. Since this has happened, I now call her "Mom". She loves it.
After I wrote the letter, I felt relieved just to be able to write down what was in my head. A week after I wrote it, I had decided to not read the letter to her or send it to her.
A few weeks later, I sat down with my cousin and had a conversation with her. (For more details see: Room With Many Doors)
During that conversation, I decided that I was not going to ask my nmother anymore questions about the past until September 26, 2013. This is no particular date. I just picked a date that was 5 years from now. These questions were hindering my relationship with my nmother. Five years from now, if those questions are still important, then I will ask them then.
So that has been a few months ago. Wow! What a difference in my relationship it has made.
We have gotten so much closer. In fact, she is answering some of my questions without me even asking. She has started opening up and talking about what happened. She even is asking me questions about things that I never thought she would ask. I am not feeling the tension that was among us since I am not seeking a moment of her time to ask a question or trying to figure out how to ask a question without her getting upset about it.
I am finally settling down in our relationship which is great. I don't wonder anymore if tomorrow is the last day I will ever talk with her or if we will ever see each other again. I don't wonder if our relationship is still there when we haven't talked in a week. I know deep down that our relationship will be a mother/daughter relationship forever.
For those adoptees out there, young or older, if you have a relationship with your nmother and want to ask what happened in the past or talk about what happened with your nmother when you were born, may I suggest to you to write it down. Write exactly what you would say to her. Write all the questions you have ever had. But keep it tucked away. If you have a new question later, go back to your letter and write it down. BUT, do not send it or tell your nmother about it. Make a commitment to keep it tucked away for 5 years or whatever is a good number for you.
Also, don't ask your nmother or try to talk to her about the past. Just live in the moment.
Then in a couple of weeks or months, see how much your relationship with your nmother has changed. See how closer you can become with your nmother by doing this.
Sidenote: For those of you who keep up with my blog. Since this has happened, I now call her "Mom". She loves it.
Sunday, December 14, 2008
19 Years of Being Reunited II
I don't remember much of the day that I met my nmother face to face, except for being nervous the night before and the day of. We set a 1 o'clock meeting at the adoption agency that I was adopted from. We were to meet in the office of the adoption counselor that had been meeting with me for the last few years and the one who found my nmother for me.
Unknown to me, he had asked her to meet with him an hour before we were to meet. He told me this a few months later. He said he wanted to prepare her to meet me. Since he had introduced a lot of other adoptees and their natural mother/father, he has seen a lot of meetings that went wrong as soon as the meeting started. He wanted to make sure that she understood that I was 21 years old and not a baby any more. He has seen some natural mothers/fathers come in with baby gifts for their relinquished children. He knew that would not work for me.
We talked for about 3 hours and then I left. I had given her my plans for Thanksgiving and she invited me to join her family for Thanksgiving. I declined since I hadn't told my parents about our visit. We exchanged phone numbers and addresses.
Our reunited life began after that. Past posts have explained what happened after our meeting if you are interested in reading them.
There are things that I would change if I had a magical genie who could turn back time.
I would have taken her up on her offer to join her family for Thanksgiving. I would have been able to meet my half siblings a lot sooner. I think that my half-sister and I would have a better relationship now if I would have done this.
I would have not told my parents about my reunion. Things have been said and feelings have been hurt because of this. But it would have been hard to keep it away from them.
I would have kept in better contact through the years instead of letting hurt and bitter feelings get in the way.
I would have gotten help to deal with the adoption feelings that I didn't know I had. That way the emotions I was going through all these years would not be toward my natural mother.
There are lots of things I would love to change in my life when it comes to my reunion but the most important one is: I would have gone into that first meeting thinking I would have a relationship with her for the rest of my life.
Unknown to me, he had asked her to meet with him an hour before we were to meet. He told me this a few months later. He said he wanted to prepare her to meet me. Since he had introduced a lot of other adoptees and their natural mother/father, he has seen a lot of meetings that went wrong as soon as the meeting started. He wanted to make sure that she understood that I was 21 years old and not a baby any more. He has seen some natural mothers/fathers come in with baby gifts for their relinquished children. He knew that would not work for me.
We talked for about 3 hours and then I left. I had given her my plans for Thanksgiving and she invited me to join her family for Thanksgiving. I declined since I hadn't told my parents about our visit. We exchanged phone numbers and addresses.
Our reunited life began after that. Past posts have explained what happened after our meeting if you are interested in reading them.
There are things that I would change if I had a magical genie who could turn back time.
I would have taken her up on her offer to join her family for Thanksgiving. I would have been able to meet my half siblings a lot sooner. I think that my half-sister and I would have a better relationship now if I would have done this.
I would have not told my parents about my reunion. Things have been said and feelings have been hurt because of this. But it would have been hard to keep it away from them.
I would have kept in better contact through the years instead of letting hurt and bitter feelings get in the way.
I would have gotten help to deal with the adoption feelings that I didn't know I had. That way the emotions I was going through all these years would not be toward my natural mother.
There are lots of things I would love to change in my life when it comes to my reunion but the most important one is: I would have gone into that first meeting thinking I would have a relationship with her for the rest of my life.
Tuesday, December 2, 2008
19 Years of Being Reunited
Nineteen years ago on Nov 22, a day before Thanksgiving, my nmother and I met for the first time. For years I wanted to meet her, but would not get to the actual point of contacting her. I wanted to meet her when I was 19 years old and by law I had to wait until I was 21 years old, unless I wanted my adoptive parents to "allow" me to meet her. Wanting to meet my nmother alone, I chose the "wait till I was 21" method.
For 2 years, I just waited until I turned 21. I knew that as soon as my birthday would come and the state law would not hold me back, I was going to see my nmother on my birthday. That is not actually what happened.
When I turned 21, I had the chance to search for her and find her, but I gave that up. Why? For several reasons.
(1) Back in the 1980s, people didn't talk about adoption like they do today. It wasn't something that you would bring up in conversations. If I did, then everyone would make me feel like I didn't belong to anyone. I would feel ashamed for being adopted. People, even older adults, would say things like "Oh I am sorry that your real mom didn't want you. You have such a better life now. Just think, you might be homeless now. You should feel really grateful that your parents wanted you and that they kept you. That is sad that your parents couldn't have kids of their own."
I didn't want anyone to feel sorry for me. Homeless? My life would be homeless if I wasn't put up for adoption? Grateful? Does that mean I need to bow down at my parent's feet every time I see them?
I couldn't talk with anyone about reuniting with my mother because I didn't want to hear all these things.
(2) OMG! The "what-ifs"
What if:
* she is not alive?
* she doesn't want to meet me and has moved on?
* I don't like her and she won't leave me alone?
* she wants me to be her daughter?
* she wants to be my mother?
* I like her better than I do my adoptive parents?
(3) What if I like her better than I do my adoptive parents? I just felt that would be so wrong. I was suppose to be so grateful to my parents. They raised me. They gave me things. They wanted me. She didn't. And now I might want to replace them with her. I could not let this happen.
(4) What if she didn't like the person I had become? How could she love someone or even like someone that she doesn't know.
I played the reasons over and over my head for 8 more months before I got the courage to meet her.
I will never forget the 2 days before I met her. It was my senior year of college and I had classes Monday and Tuesday. I was to go home Tuesday after my last class. I called my mother and told her that I would come home later Wednesday afternoon. I wanted to stick around until then and do some stuff. I never told her what I did.
The person I had asked to contact my nmother was one of the social workers at the adoption home that I was placed at. Him and I had become very good friends through the years. He wanted the reunion more than I did. I went to see him that Monday and asked him to finally search for her. He made 2 phone calls, found her, talked to her, and they both agreed that they would ask me to meet. He called me back, told me he talked with her, and she wanted to meet as soon as possible. She lived 90 miles from me and would come any time. I told him that Wednesday would be the best day for me. He called her back and she agreed.
On Tuesday, I went back to his office and tried to cancel the appointment, but he wouldn't let me. How could I do this? All I could think about is that I was finally going to meet the only person I had ever wanted to meet and I have a chance to do that, but I was worried about what my parent's would think of me.
I know that never once, let me say that again, never once did I think I would have a relationship with my nmother. I thought we would meet, talk for an hour, she would answer all the questions I have ever had, we would catch up on the 21 years of my life, and I would be out of there in less than an hour or two at the most.
(to be continued...)
For 2 years, I just waited until I turned 21. I knew that as soon as my birthday would come and the state law would not hold me back, I was going to see my nmother on my birthday. That is not actually what happened.
When I turned 21, I had the chance to search for her and find her, but I gave that up. Why? For several reasons.
(1) Back in the 1980s, people didn't talk about adoption like they do today. It wasn't something that you would bring up in conversations. If I did, then everyone would make me feel like I didn't belong to anyone. I would feel ashamed for being adopted. People, even older adults, would say things like "Oh I am sorry that your real mom didn't want you. You have such a better life now. Just think, you might be homeless now. You should feel really grateful that your parents wanted you and that they kept you. That is sad that your parents couldn't have kids of their own."
I didn't want anyone to feel sorry for me. Homeless? My life would be homeless if I wasn't put up for adoption? Grateful? Does that mean I need to bow down at my parent's feet every time I see them?
I couldn't talk with anyone about reuniting with my mother because I didn't want to hear all these things.
(2) OMG! The "what-ifs"
What if:
* she is not alive?
* she doesn't want to meet me and has moved on?
* I don't like her and she won't leave me alone?
* she wants me to be her daughter?
* she wants to be my mother?
* I like her better than I do my adoptive parents?
(3) What if I like her better than I do my adoptive parents? I just felt that would be so wrong. I was suppose to be so grateful to my parents. They raised me. They gave me things. They wanted me. She didn't. And now I might want to replace them with her. I could not let this happen.
(4) What if she didn't like the person I had become? How could she love someone or even like someone that she doesn't know.
I played the reasons over and over my head for 8 more months before I got the courage to meet her.
I will never forget the 2 days before I met her. It was my senior year of college and I had classes Monday and Tuesday. I was to go home Tuesday after my last class. I called my mother and told her that I would come home later Wednesday afternoon. I wanted to stick around until then and do some stuff. I never told her what I did.
The person I had asked to contact my nmother was one of the social workers at the adoption home that I was placed at. Him and I had become very good friends through the years. He wanted the reunion more than I did. I went to see him that Monday and asked him to finally search for her. He made 2 phone calls, found her, talked to her, and they both agreed that they would ask me to meet. He called me back, told me he talked with her, and she wanted to meet as soon as possible. She lived 90 miles from me and would come any time. I told him that Wednesday would be the best day for me. He called her back and she agreed.
On Tuesday, I went back to his office and tried to cancel the appointment, but he wouldn't let me. How could I do this? All I could think about is that I was finally going to meet the only person I had ever wanted to meet and I have a chance to do that, but I was worried about what my parent's would think of me.
I know that never once, let me say that again, never once did I think I would have a relationship with my nmother. I thought we would meet, talk for an hour, she would answer all the questions I have ever had, we would catch up on the 21 years of my life, and I would be out of there in less than an hour or two at the most.
(to be continued...)
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